web comics thread

[nic carcieri]

Should web comics count towards members required annual page count?

I say YES. I see no reason why they shouldn't count. We have three current members with ongoing web comics right now. J Kevin Carrier's Glorianna and Lady Spectra comics, Alan Evans' Rival Angels and Brien Wayne Powell's Magnet Mansion. These artists put as much work into their pages as any other artist does on his printed pages, so in my mind there should be no distinction between the two mediums. However, I would put forth two suggestions, if a member wants his webcomic to count towards his page count then he should 1. have a link on his webcomic to the UFO site and 2. once a month display the current UFO checklist so his readers can see what publications the UFO is producing.

please use this thread to vote on this idea or to add thoughts of your own.

;D

[robimes]

Since no one else has replied yet, this newbie will stick his neck out and wade in...

I see the two questions you asked (the one in this thread, and the one in the other thread about allowing e-comics in lieu of printed copies) as being nearly identical questions.

20 pages per year (text or comics) is the annual requirement in the UFO Constituion. Surely this is not too great an expense if one is simply going to run off xeroxes simply to fulfill the UFO quota, given that there is only around a dozen members.

A simple 20-page B&W digest size photocopied comic can cost anywhere from 40 cents to $1.00 to print up, depending on the place you go to print them up. (If one is really strapped for cash and only intends to print up a dozen copies, it could be printed up on one's own printer at home.) But, let's use the high number and say that it costs $12.00 to print twelve copies of one 20-page issue.

There would then be the cost of P&H. A package of 30 claspless envelopes can usually be found at K-Mart for $5.00 or less. The post office often allows 6" x 9" claspless envelopes to be mailed as letters for 59 cents each, as long as they are under 2 oz. (A 20-page digest-size comic on regular paper is under 2 oz.) Thus, it would cost $7.08 (twelve 59-cent stamps) to mail out a dozen copies. Sometimes post offices get their own rules mixed up, though (as I have learned) and will charge $1.00 for each 6" x 9" envelope. That would bring the postage cost up to $12.00 to mail out a dozen copies.

So, let's use all those high numbers: $12.00 to print twelve copies of one 20-page comic, $12.00 in stamps to mail out those 12 copies, and 5 bucks for the envelopes. That comes to a total of 29 dollars. Let's just say 30 dollars to count the staples, etc.

Is $30.00 too high a cost for an annual minimum requirement? Of course that is on top of the $20 membership fee, but that is going to produce T-Frags (a copy of which is sent to the member).

On the other hand, I can appreciate the web-creators' point, that the printed version is a waste of their time, a redudancy, because they have already produced the pages in a manner that is more relevant to them, and displaying the work to best advantage (perfect printing, full colors, etc.). Whereas a printed copy may be seen as a mere shadow of their efforts. Some longtime print creators like Joe Zabel have abandoned print publishing entirely.

On the other hand, receiving printed zines is one of the incentives for joining a co-op in the first place. If I receive something, I feel an obligation to give something in return. Is a web comic giving me anything that I can then collect, trade, or sell? Many times old zines are sold on eBay, sometimes for surprising amounts of money. They exist as physical objects which their owners can then sell later if they wish. The nature of small-press publishing ensures their rarity due to low print runs.

What happens if a UFO member turns out to be the next Frank Miller? If that happens, each UFO member not only is in the possession of rare early work by neo-Frank, but could later sell it if they wished and reap some benefits from neo-Frank's post-UFO fame. But if it's all on the web, then the UFO member isn't able to profit later from the collectability of that work. Rather than being seen as a drawback, the nature of small-press ought to be seen as a favorable, if one has something rare that not everybody else has, by definition a "limited edition."

It seems to me that web comics put to much emphasis on the now and not enough on the future. Small-press publications from 30 or 40 years ago (heck, even more recently) can be highly-prized collectables in some quarters. The small-press publications of today may similarly be highly-regarded and sought after by some collectors in the future. The web comic, lacking a physical nature, existing only on cyberspace, lacks some of the advantages of print in the area of permanence.

Recently I traded some zines with another self-publisher. I had zines to send him, he had zines to send me -- we both benefited. Yes, it may have been simpler to send links to one another (if our works existed only online) but part of my appreciation comes from knowing the hard work he has done self-publishing, doubtless at great expense. And hopefully he felt the same way about what I sent him, that it was a mutually beneficial exchange.

But what if he had sent me his publications and in exchange I had simply emailed him a link to my website? Would that have been a fair and equal exchange?

I mentioned eBay before. One advantage for web comic publishers is to offer a print version of their publication, providing a link on their website to a place where the comic can be bought. It could even be an eBay auction. This could provide some incentive for producing printed copies, and even help pay for a lot of the printing costs if it sells well. A page of each printed comic could be left blank so that the artist could do a personalized sketch inside each copy, taking advantage of the collectability factor of print production. They could also be used at convention appearances, unlike a webpage.

Anyway, those are some of my thoughts on the matter. I'm too new to feel confident voting either yes or no, and will be interested to see what others have to say about it.

[nic carcieri]

Rob,

thanks so much for sharing your thoughts, it is always a good thing when we can start a dialogue about a subject. The only thing I'll comment on about your thoughts is just to clarify in the case of web comics my view to accept them as part of the UFO is not based so much on the financial aspect, although admittedly that is the driving force for allowing pdf versions, to give members who need it, a little finanacial relief, with the web comics it's just a matter of respecting the work that the creators put into them. Anyone who's followed Glorianna or Magnet Mansion or Rival Angels (and if any of you are not, I encourage you to do so) you know the quality of the work. These guys continue to update page after page multiple times a week, month after month and I want to recognize and honor that.

anyone else?

[robimes]

Hi Nic,

Yep, hopefully some other members can comment on the subject. It looks like this thread has gotten a lot of views (judging by the counter number) but not many replies. Should we read anything into the lack of replies (i.e, that it is a non-issue, or of little concern, to most of the members)? What do those who produce web comics think of the topic?

[nic carcieri]

I wouldn't put much into the non-replies as of yet, I'm sure people are just getting their copies of TF over the past cople of days and reading what I wrote there and forming thier own opinions. I'll bet if no over the weekend then next week folks will start chiming in.

[timkelly]

YES!!!

[albone]

I'm kind of biased so I'll hold off on any comments just yet.

[Darrell Nightray2002 Goza]

Should digital books count towards the UFO yearly page count? I say emphatically yes!

Don't get me wrong, I like getting and sending printed versions of books. It just makes getting them to the audience faster and easier.

The online format allows for color throughout at no additional cost, which is very prohibitive.

As far as the collectable nature of print vs online, it isn't really a factor because if anyone wants a copy of a digital book it's easily printed through many of the print on demand outfits at minimal to low cost on a person by person basis.

Again, I say yes.